Trump’s Self-Dealing and the Question of Kleptocracy

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

The New Yorker

Obama, Washington, Politics, President, Barack, Lizza, Wnyc, News, Wickenden

4.3 • 3.9K Ratings

🗓️ 3 June 2026

⏱️ 53 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

The New Yorker staff writer David D. Kirkpatrick joins Tyler Foggatt and Andrew Marantz to discuss his investigation—published in August, 2025—into the many ways President Donald Trump has profited during his second term, which include a reported private jet (a gift from Qatar), soaring valuations of Trump Media, and a flood of crypto ventures. They discuss whether these attempts at self-enrichment amount to ordinary political corruption, or whether they represent tools for consolidating power that could in turn accelerate democratic backsliding in the United States, much like in kleptocracies and oligarchies abroad.

This episode originally aired on August 20, 2025.

This week’s reading:

“Is There a Remedy for Presidential Profiteering?,” by David D. Kirkpatrick
“Trump’s Profiteering Hits $6 Billion,” by David D. Kirkpatrick
“This Is What Trumpian Self-Dealing Looks Like,” by John Cassidy
“How Trump Created a Slush Fund for His Allies,” by Ruth Marcus
“How Pakistan Is Using the Iran War to Reinvent Itself,” by Sudarsan Raghavan
“The Strange Emptiness of the Crowded Governor’s Race in California,” by Nathan Heller

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, it's David Remnick, and I've got some news for you.
0:03.8	We're headed to the Tribeca Festival for a special live taping of the New Yorker Radio Hour.
0:09.4	We'll be doing a one-night-only show at the festival's 25th anniversary.
0:14.0	So come out and join us on Wednesday, June 10th at 815.
0:18.7	Tickets are available now at Tribecafilm.com slash audio. That's Tribecafilm.com
0:25.5	slash audio.
0:30.7	Hey everyone. We're taking a break this week, but I did want to share a previous conversation
0:40.0	that New Yorker staff writer Andrew Morantz and I had with our colleague David Kirkpatrick
0:44.5	about the extent of Donald Trump's corruption and whether the U.S. is becoming a kleptocracy.
0:50.8	At the time of our conversation, David had just written a groundbreaking investigation for The New Yorker
0:56.0	about how much money Trump has made while in office, which he's since written a follow-up to.
1:01.0	With the recent news that the president and his family will be shielded from IRS audits,
1:05.0	it seemed like a good moment to revisit this episode.
1:08.0	This is the political scene. I'm Tyler Foggett, and I'm a senior editor at The New Yorker.
1:17.0	Hey, David. Thanks so much for joining us. It's my pleasure. Hey, David. Thank you for doing this.
1:22.2	Good to talk to you again. You recently wrote a 15,000-plus word investigative report about
1:27.2	Trump's self-enrichment during his second term. And one of the things that's kind of amazing about this piece is that we've been hearing about this story for a while. I mean, ever since Trump's first presidency, you know, he's making money off of the hotels and Mar-a-Lago. But this piece actually sets out to answer the question of how much Trump is making, as opposed to just sounding
1:44.9	the alarm on the fact that he's profiting off of the presidency in the first place.
1:48.6	So I guess, like, before we get too far in, what is the number that you came up with?
1:53.4	I came up with $3.4 billion.
1:57.6	That's it?
1:59.8	You know, when I got into that, I actually thought that a lot of people on the left would probably be disappointed.
	...

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