Trump’s Iran War: America's Loss Is China’s Win

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 20 May 2026

⏱️ 56 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this week’s episode of “The David Frum Show,” The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with his reaction to President Trump’s shocking settlement with the IRS and his new $1.8 billion slush fund for victims of political “weaponization.” Then, David is joined by Phillips O’Brien, a military historian and a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews, for a discussion about the fallout from the war in Iran, Russia’s stalemate with Ukraine, and Trump’s recent meeting with President Xi Jinping in China. Frum and O’Brien discuss Trump’s lack of commitment toward Taiwan and how he has greatly diminished America’s standing with China. Finally, David ends the episode with a discussion of “What Science Says About Astrology,” by Carlos Orsi. Sign up for David Frum’s newsletter alert. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/Listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:52.0	Hello and welcome to the David Frum show. I'm David Frum, a staff writer at the Atlantic.
0:55.9	My guest this week will be Phillips O'Brien, a military historian at the University of St. Andrews,
1:00.6	and we'll be discussing the wars in Ukraine and Russia, the wars between the United States and Iran,
1:06.5	and the risk of war around the island of Taiwan. The book this week will be what science says about
1:12.1	astrology by Carlos Horsey. But before either the dialogue or the book discussion, some thoughts
1:18.1	about recent news that President Trump has succeeded in obtaining some kind of fund of apparently
1:25.3	or reportedly $1.776 billion for him at his near sole personal
1:30.4	discretion to dispense to allies and associates. The whole story is so incredible and so
1:36.0	doubtfully legal that it's hard even to find a language to describe what it is we've got here.
1:41.7	Let's step back to understand the story a little better before we
1:44.5	understand what its implications are. In the first Trump administration, an IRS contractor
1:49.4	leaked thousands of tax returns of wealthy people, including President Trump, to make the point
1:54.8	that rich people in the United States pay very little tax. President Trump's tax returns were made
1:59.3	available by this contractor who was indicted,
2:02.5	pled guilty, and was sentenced to five years in prison. The contractor is now appealing that sentence.
2:07.6	The revelations were intensely embarrassing to President Trump. They showed that in the year that
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