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Hello, welcome to a bonus edition of origin story.

I'm Doreen Linsky.

I'm Ian Dunn.

We wrote our origin story book about the past and present and possible future of fascism before the American election.

And I've thought about it quite a lot since the American election following the inauguration of Donald Trump for the second time. First was an accident,

second looks like carelessness. We will be releasing a little extract from the book, a bit from the prologue,

because I do think that the history is quite useful in spotting some of the patterns and symbolism,

although it has to be said that Elon Musk throwing what appears to be a fascist salute more than once

doesn't require the historian Richard J. Evans to decode that one.

Ian, obviously one does not like to be hysterical about this.

We were talking about how not to cry fascism and everything.

What did you make of the inauguration? Oh, I would really like to cry fascism now.

Okay.

I mean, there's a certain, I know that you're, you know, you've discovered that apparently

the frogs in water and it's bollocks and apparently the frog does jump out the water, but you do

sort of feel like, because it's like an everyday

sort of, you know, degree by degree by degree increase, you feel trapped by it. And there is a

...