Welcome back to this episode, To the Contrary Podcast. I'm Charlie Sacks. We are moving into the Christmas

week. Probably we'll have a little bit of a different schedule, but we are going to be doing a number of

year-in-review programs. So stay tuned for all of that. On this particular program, look back on

another extraordinary weekend. The Epstein cover-up continues rather

aggressively. We saw the future of MAGA down in Phoenix at the TPUSA conference. And it is,

shall we say, brutish, ugly, and it's going to be very, very dangerous. J.D. Van saying no purity tests for

the right, which apparently means neo-Nazis. And Ben Shapiro deciding that he's going to take a

strong stand now against his Maga fellow travelers. I have some thoughts about that in the

newsletter yesterday. We have a lot of ground to cover.

Stay tuned.

On today's episode of To the Contrary Podcast, I'm joined by my good friend Lucy Caldwell,

a political strategist and former by which I mean recovering

Republican. Lucy, welcome on the podcast. How are you? Hey, Charlie. How have you managed this year?

I'm great. It's good to see you. How are you holding up? Well, you know, it's it's it's day by day.

You know, I was a little bit encouraged last week watching Jimmy Kimmel's last monologue where, and I've kind of become a fan.

I confess this.

And Jimmy Kimmel says, you know, this job is kind of hard.

It feels like you're spinning your wheel sometime.

And I'm raising my hand going, yeah, I know that.

And he says, you know, we're watching all the crazy things going on watching all the harms that are being

intentionally inflicted and it's hard to get your head around that and yeah we identify with that and

he said you know the problem is that we've grown up watching Superman you know truth justice in

...