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Hey guys, welcome back to the bulwark,

Sam Stein, managing editor for the site. And I have a special guest for us, Greta Paish.

Greta is the former general counsel at the U.S. Trade Representative. She's now a partner

at the firm Wiley. She is an expert on all things trade, and she's going to unpack all the stuff happening around tariffs

in a way that hopefully we can all understand because frankly it's hard to understand.

More important than that, just to break down the fourth wall, Greta is an old friend.

We went to school together and we have been in conversation for what?

Two decades?

Something like that. And that's like the greatest accomplishment that you bring to the table is that you've endured me for two decades. It's been hard. It's been hard. Yeah, exactly. So if you can do that, you can just do a 10 to 15 minute Riverside recording. I can try. All right, Greta, we're speaking like literally, I don't know, 30 minutes maybe after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit has announced that is going to put essentially a stay on an earlier ruling by the U.S. Court of International Trade, which had said that a portion of Trump's tariffs, a lot of them, overstep the

economic emergency policy or powers act. And they had invalidated the tariffs. Now the

tariffs are kind of back on, essentially this is going to the Supreme Court, it looks like.

But what's your read on what the hell is going on here? And what should we make of it?

Well, you know know i wouldn't make

too much into this pause into the state that the uh court of appeals has put on the original order

um this is all very complex and it was complex to start with before the courts got involved

and there's just been a flurry of papers

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