He's almost acting like a guy that feels like he's running out of time.

I mean, like he's 79 years old.

He doesn't really exercise.

You know, his diet isn't exactly the model diet.

I'm Joanna Coles.

This is The Daily Beast podcast.

And today in the studio, we have none other than the author of Retribution, Jonathan

Carl,

the Washington correspondent for ABC News.

This is a fascinating read.

And, well, the man's here.

Let's get into it.

We are joined by Jonathan Carl, ABC's Washington Bureau Chief and the author of, God Help Us, only rivaled by Michael Wolfe, four books on Donald Trump, including his latest retribution, which is a gripping read.

I will say I curled up with this book, big cup of tea, big under my blanket as the first cold of the winter crept upon us.

And I couldn't put it down.

And you start with a conversation that you have on the phone with Donald Trump when you call him to congratulate him on being the president-elect.

And then you refer to many

conversations you have throughout the book with him. It feels like the two of you are in an

abusive relationship. It feels like that with a lot of people with Donald Trump. I mean,

look, it's, by the way, I should say one thing. I am not the Washington Bureau Chief. I am

the Chief Washington correspondent, and I want to thank you. Sorry to Rick Klein, I'm sorry I insulted you. I'm so mad. And look, and I would never want that responsibility. That would mean I'd actually have to run, you know, the place. So I, you know, yeah, I mean, look. I'm just going to point out that the Daily Beast is so efficient that we have a Washington bureau chief and chief Washington correspondent in David Gardner. Wow. We have a smaller team than ABC. Don't tell my friends at ABC that. I like, you know. All right. We've started off. This is very frightening. We've already started off and I've got your title wrong. But it does feel like you're in an abusive relationship with Trump and sometimes he calls you and he loves you and other times he calls you out in public and tells you you're part of the problem. Yeah. I mean, look, first of all, I've known the guy for 30 plus years. I mean, I first interviewed him when I was a young New York Post reporter, you know, running around Trump Tower,

and he was showing me all his glories and, you know, telling, I mean, it was like, he's

...