Mike & May open the episode with an in-depth discussion of the latest indictment against Donald Trump. Neither of them sees the case against the former president as particularly strong, with Mike expressing discomfort for using the criminal justice system to punish a political opponent who has done things that may be bad, dumb, and even unethical, but not clearly criminal. May thinks that, contrary to some theories on the right, special counsel Jack Smith is acting about how one would expect any special counsel to act. Next, they move to the 2024 election and a recent NYT / Sienna College poll that has Trump and Biden in a dead heat. May doesn’t believe Donald Trump has much of a chance to return to the White House, and while Mike hopes she’s right, he has his doubts after thinking the same thing in 2016. They close with a look at the recent downgrade of the US credit rating by Fitch. Mike argues that there aren’t likely to be significant short-term consequences, which both Mike and May see as a long-term problem for a political system that doesn’t have anything approaching the political will to address unsustainable spending. (May makes the case here that deficit spending is immoral.) What if We’re the Bad Guys Here? David Brooks, New York Times The Politics Guys on Facebook | Twitter Listener support helps make The Politics Guys possible. You can support us or change your level of support at patreon.com/politicsguys or politicsguys.com/support. On Venmo we’re @PoliticsGuys.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices