This is the Tom Hartman Program.

We would be at a stalemate and what I understood in that meeting the meaning of

stalemate was the security assistance would not come. So even though he said

the words there were no quid pro quo he then went on to say but

the security assistance will not come unless these investigations are done is that

what you're saying my understanding that's what was meant by

stalemate. So we're listening to Ambassador Taylor now testifying before the

House on page hearing.

Ambassador Sunland gave me about his understanding of President Trump's thought process.

Ambassador Sonland is a businessman,

President Trump's a businessman.

He was explained to me the relationship, the understanding that a

businessman would have when he was about to sign a check. And by that he clearly meant that President Trump was thinking about or had in front of him the possibility of providing security assistance to Ukraine.

It was similar to writing a check to someone who you're about

to send. He used that analogy very clearly to indicate that this would require something.

If that person owed him something before he signed the check, he wanted to get that,

get whatever he was owed paid back to him.

Ambassador Volker used very similar language about a week later,

which indicates to me that they had that conversation as well.

Did Ukraine owe anything to the United States?

Ms. Goldman, they didn't.

They owed appreciation for the support, and they were getting support, and they appreciated that. But there there was not and there was nothing owed to President

...