This is In Conversation from Apple News.

I'm Shemitabas Sue.

Today, how to make sense of the U.S.'s operation in Venezuela.

It's been just about a week since the world learned of the U.S. special operation to capture

Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife, Celia Flores.

It came after months of mounting U.S. military pressure on the country.

Trump has said that the U.S. will run Venezuela for as long as necessary, years even,

though what exactly that means remains unclear.

Any kinds of moves like the ones the administration has made in recent days

have just immense consequences that can ricochet in countless directions.

That's New Yorker staff writer Jonathan Blitzer.

Just the degree of uncertainty and confusion at a time when the actual human and political

consequences are as grave as they are, I think has made this situation absolutely astonishing

to try to follow.

Jonathan has been reporting on immigration and foreign policy for years.

And the way he sees it, Venezuela sits at the nexus of so many interconnected Trump

administration priorities, from stemming migration, to addressing drug trafficking,

to amassing natural resources.

I sat down with Jonathan to ask him to untangle the reasons

why he says Venezuela has long been an obvious target for Trump and for the people in his orbit.

A few factors at play. To begin with, you have people like Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State and National Security

Advisor, who have long had designs on ousting the current regime in Venezuela for a whole host of

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