Welcome to Back from the Abyss. I'm Dr. Craig Hecock.

Today's episode, I would say was was inspired by the work of Nolan Williams.

For some of you, listeners, you might recognize his name.

He was really a leading light of psychiatry, psychiatrist at Stanford, and a pioneer,

not just of TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation,

but an accelerated forum called Saint, S-A-I-N-T, which we're going to talk about today.

In any case, as you all know, I love podcasts. I love making podcasts. I love listening to podcasts, and I've been seeking out Nolan's work in interviews for the last

few years. And I've become increasingly fascinated with his work on TMS. And we did get an episode

a couple years ago, TMS versus Ketamine versus ECT. And we mentioned the same protocol, which is

Dr. Williams' invention. But I've just become more and more interested in TMS, and I've been wanting to sit down with an expert.

And so this is the first expert interview of season seven.

And what's fun about having my own podcast is I can decide who do I want to talk to?

And so I put the word out, like, who is the TMS expert of Colorado? And it turns out she's here

with me today, Dr. Elizabeth Finsterbacher. Thank you for coming. Oh, thank you so much for having me.

It's really a privilege to be here and get the word out about TMS. Yeah, thank you so much.

Elizabeth is the founder and director of the TMS Clinic at the CU Ant Schutz at the

medical school, and she agreed to drive up Snowy I-25 to see me today to record here at my

house.

So thank you for making the trip.

So the audience will have a wide-ranging understanding of TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation.

We'll get into that.

So, but just to start with, I'm so curious, I mean, I had no exposure to TMS when I was a residency

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