"Trans Rights vs Women's Rights" with the feminist being sued for her women's app, Sall Grover
Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps
Josh Szeps
4.5 • 905 Ratings
🗓️ 8 April 2024
⏱️ 72 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, the Federal Court of Australia will hear a case with profound implications for women's rights and trans rights. It involves a women's app whose creator is being sued for discrimination by a trans woman because the app is exclusively for biological females. Here, the defendant shares her story.
Should women be allowed to exclude transgender women from female-only spaces? Or do trans women have a human right to be treated, anywhere and everywhere, as biological females?
Most of the media isn't covering the case, because in polite journalistic circles it's heresy at best, or bigotry at worst, to question whether trans women differ from biological females. Sall Grover is the creator of the app, whose life has been deranged by this litigation.
In this unique one-on-one, ahead of her landmark court appearance this week, Sall and Josh wrestle with profound questions that could redefine womanhood and gender rights in Australia.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Gahy humans. Welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas and what a dozy of a dangerous |
| 0:07.7 | idea we have for you today, which is quite peculiar because I can actually imagine an alternate |
| 0:15.6 | universe in which this idea is not controversial at all and is open to rational conversation, |
| 0:22.6 | the likes of which we're having here today. |
| 0:25.9 | We don't live in that world. |
| 0:27.2 | We live in a world in which conversations like this are regarded as beyond the pale |
| 0:31.2 | by at least half the population and probably 99% of journalists and media institutions |
| 0:37.6 | who aren't co-opted by the conservative reactionary right. |
| 0:42.7 | And it's quite peculiar because the question is pretty simple. |
| 0:45.8 | The question is, should biological women, |
| 0:50.0 | people who were assigned female at birth, that is, |
| 0:53.8 | have a right to organize themselves and create |
| 0:57.7 | spaces for themselves that exclude women who were assigned male at birth and have transitioned. |
| 1:06.4 | Now, even just my introducing the topic using that language will immediately alienate a certain proportion |
| 1:12.4 | of people who are very exercised about this issue, namely people who perhaps sometimes carry |
| 1:19.0 | the label of turf or trans-exclusionary radical feminist. That's because I use the language |
| 1:26.4 | assigned female at birth and assigned male at birth. And I want to make clear why I use the language assigned female at birth and assigned male at birth. |
| 1:28.9 | And I want to make clear why I use the language I do here. |
| 1:34.1 | The language, a person being assigned male or assigned female at birth, |
| 1:38.3 | is the language that is preferred by transgender activists and transgender people. |
| 1:43.3 | And I use it not because I necessarily agree with the language, |
| 1:46.2 | but because my job, as I see it, |
... |
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