Top Gun Instructor on AI Killing Autonomy, Quitting Colonel Promotion & Joining Jocko Willink | Ep. 267 | Pt. 3

Mike Drop

Mike Ritland

Society & Culture, Personal Journals, Documentary, Politics, News

4.9 • 6.3K Ratings

🗓️ 28 November 2025

⏱️ 78 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Episode 267 Part 3 of the Mike Drop Podcast with host Mike Ritland welcomes Dave Berke—the only Marine to ever fly the F-22 Raptor and F-35 while also serving as a TOPGUN instructor and ground combat leader in Ramadi alongside Jocko Willink and Leif Babin. In this final part of an epic 3-part conversation, Dave and Mike go deep on the toughest leadership questions facing the military today: Should AI ever be allowed to pull the trigger on its own? Why fighter pilots hated autopilot landings, the real reason Dave walked away from command and promotion, and how a single phone call from Leif Babin turned retirement into the smoothest transition in military history. They also break down life at Echelon Front (how they teach Extreme Ownership to Fortune 500 companies), why leadership is hardest at home, ego vs. humility, military standards under the new administration, and readiness challenges for the next generation of warfare. Packed with never-before-heard stories, raw honesty, and laugh-out-loud moments, this is one of the most requested Mike Drop episodes ever—perfect for veterans, aviators, leaders, and anyone who loves real talk about combat, flying, and life after the uniform. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Have you ever wondered what a sandwich sounds like?
0:03.0	Not much to it is there?
0:06.0	Unless, of course, it's a Walker's sandwich.
0:10.0	Mmm, that is good.
0:13.0	Now that's what Asani should sound like.
0:16.0	Go all crisp in with walkers.
0:18.0	Delicious.
0:20.0	One of the questions on, you know, we've talked a little bit about AI,
0:23.3	but to me, the, from a targeting standpoint, you know, when, not if,
0:28.0	when that technology gets buffered into fighter jets, I guess,
0:35.3	to me the big question is, is the allowing the autonomy to target without human
0:42.7	authorization?
0:45.2	Like, you've been in positions where maybe you, you know, if five years from now you were
0:51.2	in some of the positions you've been in as a CEO you would be making
0:55.6	that call as to whether or not you would allow that is there a scenario that exists where you
1:00.7	would allow the targeting of you know human beings lives being taken without a human being
1:08.6	giving the the go criteria and the one example I would use is,
1:13.7	especially for close air support,
1:15.6	where it's an ambush type thing,
1:17.2	where milliseconds matter,
1:19.8	and the check and balance of saying,
1:22.1	no,
	...

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