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I'm Sean Fennese. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the big picture, a conversation show about

microfilm, espionage and shadow tactics. That's right, we're talking spy movies today on the show.

In honor of Without Remorse, the latest addition to the Tom Clancy universe,

starring Michael B. Jordan as Clancy's brutal super spy, John Kelly, aka John Clark.

Later in the show, I'll be joined by Without Remorse director Stefano Solima.

Since I last spoke to Stefano about Sucario Day of the Soldado, he's co-created and directed

the Amazon Series 0-0-0. And now he enters the Clancyverse. But first, let's talk spy movies.

It's only one guy to do it with. Big fan of 0-0-0, it's Chris Codename's CR Ryan. What's up,

but what's up, guys? Any relation to Jack Ryan, Chris? Yeah, he's my dad.

Guys, let's talk quickly about Without Remorse. When we started planning this episode a couple

months ago, I thought Without Remorse was going to be a spy movie. Turns out it is not exactly a

spy movie. It is a let's punch people really hard and blow things up movie, which is not

necessarily a bad genre. I like that genre in many ways. And I think Solima is amazing at staging

major action set pieces. But it's a little bit different than my expectations. Chris, would you

think of Without Remorse? Yeah, it reminded me of an 80s action movie, especially in its character

motivations. Often, families put in peril. If anybody's seen the trailer, it's not going to come

as a surprise what spurs John Kelly down the road of acting without remorse. But that also matches

up with the source material, right? Because Clancy was writing in this 80s Cold War,

my you and like, you know, that was kind of like the way that you got characters going was to put

...