Welcome to the Dispatch Podcast. I'm your host Sarah Isger joined by Steve Hayes.

And today we are talking to Todd Rose. He is the co-founder of Populous.

Think Tank dedicated to building a world where all people have the chance to live fulfilling lives

in a thriving society. But he is also the author of Collective Illusions,

conformity, complicity, and the science of why we make bad decisions. As Adam Grant said,

if you haven't read Adam Grant's books, I can't believe you're listening to this podcast.

But he described it an illuminating analysis of why groups believe things their members don't,

and how we can fight group think.

Let's dive right in. Well, first, Steve, you had a quick thing.

I have a disclosure. Yes, my brother Dan Hayes, who helps run a company called Free Think Media,

has done some recording of Todd's scholarship over the years, over the months. I don't actually know.

But they've worked together. So I want everybody to know that before we have this discussion.

All right. The book anyway. Steve will be good cop. I'll be bad cop. Noted.

Todd, thank you so much for joining us. I'm very excited to talk about this book.

Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

I want to start with your chapter called Little Comillions. You use a study.

It has three lines marked A, B, and C. There's a short line, a long line, and a medium line.

And in this study, people were given a different card that had a medium line on it.

And it said, which line does this most closely match to in the three lines you're being shown?

And it's very clear that it's the medium line. And yet, you could actually get people to give

a different answer if you performed this study on unwitting college students. Will you describe

a little about that study and what it meant in the context of group think?

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