So what if the thing that scares you most could become one of your greatest sources of healing?

When I heard that Scott Shigoka spent a year sleeping in his Prius,

intentionally seeking up the very conversations and communities that terrified him most

as a queer Asian American progressive man, I needed to understand why. What he discovered about

the relationship between fear and curiosity changed everything I thought I knew about connecting

across divides. So picture walking into a political rally packed with those who see the world

in a way that is almost violently opposed to your point of view, not to argue or protest, but with a

genuine desire to understand

the humans behind the headlines. Or sitting down with someone whose views seem just completely

opposed to yours and finding that curiosity could transform fear into fascination and even

genuine connection. These aren't hypothetical, you know, just out there in the press. Wouldn't this

be lovely scenarios? They're real stories from a remarkable journey that revealed how heart-centered

curiosity might be our most powerful bridge across the chasms that divide us. So my guest today

is Scott Shagiyoka, a fellow at UC Berkeley's

Great A Good Science Center. Scott has extensively researched how curiosity can strengthen

our well-being and relationships. But it was this year-long journey across America, having

conversations at rallies and small towns all over the place that revealed the true power of

what he calls heart-centered curiosity

and led him to eventually distill all of his experiences into a book, seek how curiosity

can transform your life and change the world. In this conversation, Scott shares a powerful,

what he calls his dive framework for really navigating, challenging conversations, and he reveals the surprising revelations

between fear and curiosity. You learn by focusing on personal stories rather than abstract.

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