Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness

Podcast and resolving hundreds of kidnap for ransom cases involving gang leaders, pirates,

and extortionists, Scott Walker, a former Scotland Yard detective, has learned a thing or two

about how to negotiate and communicate in a crisis. He shares how to apply those lessons

to difficult conversations we all have in our everyday lives in his book, Order Out of Chaos.

Win every negotiation, thrive in diversity, and become a world-class communicator.

And we talk about his tips on today's show.

Scott and I discuss what a Red Center means in a kidnap for ransom scenario and how to create one in your personal life.

The immediate action drill that can help you stay in that Red Center, the importance of

separating the decision-maker from the communicator in a negotiation and having a battle rhythm,

while you don't give hostage takers the money they ask for right away and had a structure of negotiation

instead and more. After the show's over

check at our show notes at A.O.M. slash Walker. All right, Scott Walker, welcome to the show.

All right, Scott Walker, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having we.

So you are a hostage negotiator. So you negotiate with people who have

taken other people hostage. You also help organizations who have had ransomware attacks. How did you end up doing

what you're doing?

Yes, a great question.

I don't actually recall the conversation at school

where you know you sit down with a careers advisor and they say so what is it you want to do?

Do you want to be a train driver, a teacher, a doctor, whatever?

...