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This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

I'm David Remnick. In January of 2022 I talked on the program with the historian Timothy

Snyder, the author of Bloodlands and on tyranny.

We talked about Russia and Ukraine.

The invasion was just around the corner.

And also about the United States.

Snyder explained how Russia's military invasion of its neighbor was related to its influence

campaigns here in America.

By encouraging the America first isolationist idea, to the extent that it's been successful.

Putin he said enables Russia to have its way in Europe.

Since the invasion Timothy Snyder has made many trips to Ukraine, speaking in Ukrainian, with soldiers,

farmers, journalists, and politicians, including President Vologna Mersilensky.

From a country fighting off an invasion, Snyder says he finds lessons for Americans living in much greater safety.

His new book is called On Freedom, and he writes, freedom is not just an absence of evil, but a presence of good.

Tim Snyder, you are just back from Ukraine, and you've been many, many times.

What were your impressions of the mood in Kiev and beyond?

The mood would be something like, we have to do this because Russian occupation is worse than fighting them. I think we tend to think that if their mood gets bad enough then they give up or we can we can bully them into giving up. The mood question only kind of it only gets you so far. The mood is you know the mood is dark far the mood is you know the mood is dark the mood is angry

the mood is realistic about Americans I think more realistic than we are about

ourselves what does that mean we think we're more important I, we're very important not to get this wrong.

We can supply weapons in a way that nobody else can do, but they're aware that for reasons that

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