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Welcome to the Bullwork Podcast. I'm Charlie Sykes. It is June 9, 2023. It is the day after the big indictment drop of Donald Trump. And as I wrote in my newsletter this morning, it feels like an understatement to say that we're waking up today and untrue.

I'm Charlie Sykes. It is June 9, 2023. It is the day after the big indictment drop of Donald Trump. And as I wrote in my newsletter this morning, it feels like an understatement to say that we're waking up today and untrusted territory because no former president has ever been indicted by the federal government.

And as much as charged with violating the espionage act. And so what we know, we don't have the detail all of the details because the indictments are still sealed.

But the Florida grand jury has handed down seven charges. There may be multiple counts that we don't know.

Washington Post reporting the charges include willful retention of national defense secrets, obstruction of justice and conspiracy, which carry the potential of years in prison if Trump is found guilty.

So in other words, Jack Smith went big. This is not a trivial case and these are not trivial charges. So joining us on this special post indictment, Bullwork podcast, my colleague Bill Crystal. And we'll be joined by Tim Miller when he gets, gets you in a few minutes. So Bill, how are you this morning?

I find Charlie ever you.

You know, it's it's one of those moments where I think we're balancing on we've been here before. Is it same old same old is the base going to rally around him is this going to be another one of these Lucy in the football cases or is there something genuinely different about this and no one knows the answer to this.

Donald Trump is still the apex predator and until somebody takes him out that's the way the Republican party is going to feel. But I have to say I was really struck by how big Jack Smith went. I mean, you're talking about the espionage act. You're talking about obstruction of justice, not just obstruction of justice, but a conspiracy to obstruct justice, making full statements.

I mean, I'm sorry, this is a B F D your thoughts when you heard about this.

Yeah, my first thought was this is a big deal. My second thought was January six was kind of a big deal. And for 48 hours after that, it looked like it really would end. Trump is a leader of the Republican party. In fact, it looked like it be a peach to be convicted perhaps.

And that's your bet to be wrong. And I guess since then, I mean, God knows the preceding four or five years for both of us were disillusioning in terms of Republicans ever taking one of the exit ramps.

And they claimed privately to want to take to get off the Trump highway. Then they didn't have to January six. And the area is leading the field by 25 points. But this, you know, it is a criminal indictment.

It is by the justice department. It's not by one local TA. It is it looks like a strong case. I guess I still have the old fashioned view that what the actual charges are will matter what the actual evidence is will matter if it looks like he's just being Trump.

But there are less. He's little reckless even contemptuous of the law and of law enforcement justice department people, but still ultimately, you know, what really didn't matter. Did he did anything hurt the US.

That will be one outcome that people could talk themselves into. I mean, for someone like me who served in government, it's just unbelievable behavior. And really is not trivial, as you say. And it really isn't trivial incidentally.

I can just take a minute on the substance. I mean, you have serious classified documents floating around somewhere.

We don't even know if they're all back, you know, at the archives now or in the order safe custody. And who knows who has them. One reason there's so strict on this stuff is you don't know all the damage that's been done.

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