Chronic illness and death on this edition of Truth and Love.

I'm Dale Johnson, and you're listening to Truth and Love, a podcast of the Association of Certified Biblical Counselors,

where we seek to provide biblical solutions to the problems that people face.

And I am excited this week. I get to sit down and have a conversation with Dr. Vanessa

Ellen. Now, many of you may know, her husband, Nicholas Ellen, but she might be the more fun one to

hang out with. And so I love being able to sit down with Vanessa and talk about the Lord, the things of God.

And it just gets exciting to talk about those things.

She is a lady who deeply loves the Lord Jesus.

And I'm so grateful for that.

And she's into a lot of different stuff.

And you need to know about some of these things.

She is the president of real life women's ministries.

And you can find out information about that at Dr.venessa Ellen.com.

I'm told that she does a podcast and also a cooking show as well.

And I'm definitely going to let my wife know about that cooking show.

And so she's also, as I mentioned, has a doctoral degree.

She's a PhD earned from Southwestern Seminary.

She has a M.A.B.C. from the Masters University and also Master of Arts and Christian Education from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary as well.

Vanessa, listen, it is so good to have you here talking about even some difficult issues as we talk about counseling in some very difficult moments. But listen, it's good to have you here talking about even some difficult issues as we talk about counseling in some very

difficult moments. But listen, it's good to have you here with us. Thank you so much. It's just a

pleasure. Now, as we get started, again, we're talking about the issues of chronic illness. And

oftentimes when we use that idea of chronic illness, people have difficult diagnoses, and they may be even

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