considering categories of sorrow on this edition of Truth and Love.

I'm Dale Johnson and you're listening to Truth and Love, a podcast of the Association of Certified

Biblical Counselors, where we seek to provide biblical solutions to the problems that people face.

And as always, I am glad to have with me Dr. Nicholas Ellen.

So many of you know Dr. Ellen and his wonderful teaching through ACBC and many other

venues as well. He's actually a two-time doctor. He has a doctor of ministry from the Southern Baptist

Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. And he has a PhD from Southwestern Baptist Theological

Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas. And that's where I got to know, Dr. Ellen. And what a great thing that

was. Thankful for the Providence of the Lord and getting to know him a little bit. And just really

enjoyed the relationship with him. Tell you a little bit and just really enjoyed the relationship

with him.

I'll tell you a little bit more about him.

He is a professor at the College of Biblical Studies in Houston and also at Central

Baptist Theological Seminary, helping them with their MABC, which is fully accredited as well

up in Plymouth, Minnesota.

He's a pastor of the Community of faith Bible church down in the

Houston metro area. And this is a faithful brother. So grateful for him and his work and the times

that we get to spend together. And today we're going to talk a little bit about sorrow. What a

misunderstood topic, especially in our culture in the way the culture thinks about it. But let's not

like pass off all the difficulties to the culture, right? I mean, we struggle to understand

this aspect even in the church. And so, Nick, I'm so grateful that you're here to help us to

consider, you know, all these ideas about sorrow and maybe to give us some good, healthy,

...