assessing Christian use of the Enneagram on this edition of Truth and Love.

I'm Dale Johnson and you're listening to Truth and Love, a podcast of the Association of Certified

Biblical Counselors, where we seek to provide biblical solutions

for the problems that people face.

And once again, on the podcast, I am visited by Dr. Renn Cherry.

Ren is the Director of Finances and Donor Relations

here at ACBC, serving on our staff.

He's also an adjunct professor

at Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

He received his doctoral degree, his Ph.D. from Southwestern Seminary, not too long ago. He wrote

actually on this subject, the Enneagram, and he has a forthcoming book that will be out of that research,

that doctoral research, and it's called Enneagram Theology, Is It Christian?

And I'm excited that you guys actually get a full month of Wren. We get to enjoy Ren in the office

every day, and you guys are just getting a wonderful taste of what life is like with Ren. And we love

Ren in the office. He's married to Terry, and we get to enjoy fellowship with her as well.

He has two children, Jack and Carly.

And, Rand, I'm so grateful that you're here again for a fourth week.

And what I want us to do this week is, let's see if we can set the stage.

And turn the corner, we've talked a lot about background,

the history of the Enneagram, where it came from helping people to understand mystic roots.

And let me just say if you've not listened to the three previous podcasts, we've done some of

this background work, this history work. And if you've listened to that, you're coming to this

...