All right, so we are going to talk about how there's this one thing that will crush your marketing

if you don't take it seriously.

So Neil and I might have different interpretations here, and I'm going to go ahead and start first,

and we'll go back and forth.

So I think one thing that will crush your marketing,

for sure, this is probably the one thing

is if you don't build a culture of experimentation and what that means is you're

constantly one you're very open-minded you're two that means you're also open to failure and it also means that you're not

holding anything to be too sacred it means you have strong views that are loosely

held and so when you build a culture of experimentation where winds are nice

but failures are also very good too because you're ultimately learning

That's how you're going to iterate and that's how you're going to compel them because when you think about

conversion rate optimization for example all you're trying to do sometimes is trying to hit some

singles occasionally you get a home run every now and then but that's what you're doing

constantly iterating and if you can continue to hone that mindset then you're

gonna be good the problem with a lot of people is they might develop this culture of testing for a period of time, but then they let it go and then their marketing starts to fall apart.

Dude, so I'm actually very similar to you.

I believe that if you don't keep experimenting and testing,

it's going to really break your marketing in the long run.

But I'm going to add a caveat to it because this is where I think people mess up and I'll give you a prime example of one of my older businesses.

So we had a startup years ago called Kissmetrics.

And Kissmetrics was a SAS company. We got people to sign up, they fill out their information,

...