Hi, I'm Ashley, one of the producers here at Pitchfork Economics.

When COVID hit a year ago, we were right in the middle of recording conversations for

some episodes that were under development at the time.

But then we had to abandon our office and pivot to new COVID content.

So that meant saving those conversations we had already recorded in our archive.

But now a whole year has gotten away from us.

So we're excited to finally start sharing those conversations with you.

The first one is with Valerie Wilson, the director of the program on race, ethnicity, and

the economy at the Economic Policy Institute.

And please remember that this conversation with Nick and Justin was recorded before the

Black Lives Matter movement events of last summer and of course before the pandemic.

So listen to it with fat lens if you can.

But overall, we think this is a timeless discussion of what policies work in the pursuit of

racial equality and what racism costs the economy.

My name is Valerie Wilson.

I'm an economist and director of the program on race, ethnicity, and the economy at the

Economic Policy Institute.

Awesome.

We are so glad you're here.

So I'll just jump in with some questions.

So neoliberalism promises that a rising tide will lift all boats.

We think about this a lot, this myth a lot on the show, regardless of race.

...