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Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

"There IS no Housing Crisis, Akshually ☝️" with economist Cameron Murray

Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

Josh Szeps

Education, Comedy, Comedy Interviews, Self-improvement, Society & Culture

4.5905 Ratings

🗓️ 13 October 2025

⏱️ 106 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Insane house prices are destroying the middle-class dream of home ownership. Or... are they?

Is there actually a housing crisis? Or are most people, in fact, comfortably paying historically-unremarkable mortgage repayments for a desirable product? Economist Cameron Murray argues for this unpopular (you might even say “uncomfortable”) heterodox view. While many of his peers, like our recent guest Peter Tulip, argue that house prices are too high because of a lack of supply, Cameron reckons they’re actually… checks notes… just fine.

Josh pushes on this theory, from interest rates to immigration to the politics of property, in a conversation that asks what really drives up the property price tag, what we’re really paying for... and why we just can’t stop talking about it.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Gide, humans.

0:04.1

Welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas.

0:07.3

It is the dangerous question that is most likely to be on the tip of the tongue of a certain

0:13.1

cohort of middle-class, middle-aged people at barbecues or bars.

0:17.9

And that is, why are houses so bloody expensive? What has happened in the past

0:23.2

half century in rich Western countries to put houses into the millions of dollars far out

0:29.4

of the reach of the average working man? Last month I got on this show, Peter Tulep, one of

0:35.4

Australia's leading economists, to give us the answer,

0:38.3

the conventional economic answer for this. And it was absolutely fascinating. You should go back

0:41.9

and listen to that episode if you're interested in this, basically saying, look, there's more

0:46.9

demand than there is supply. We are NIMBY's. Our councils love heritage protections.

0:52.7

We don't want big skyscrapers right next to us.

0:55.7

We don't want lots of townhouses crammed together.

0:58.6

We like our streets the way that we are

1:00.0

and therefore we prevent people from building

1:01.6

and logically, if you have more demand than you have supply,

1:05.3

prices will go up.

1:07.0

After that episode dropped, we got pushback

1:09.4

from a small cohort of economists who said,

1:12.6

actually that can't really explain what is going on.

1:16.5

And if you really think about it carefully and you do your economics right,

1:21.5

you may be led to a very, very uncomfortable conclusion indeed.

...

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