Hey, welcome to Grant's podcast. I am Jim Grant, the editor of Grants, and with me is the great

Evan Lorenz, who is the deputy editor of Grants, and Phil Grant, who runs our almost daily

grants production. Eric Whitehead of the Dials. Well, this episode of the grants podcast is

brought to us by Health IQ, which is the insurance company for hard bodies, of which more presently,

and away travel, maker of a very nifty piece of luggage. More details of that is well soon.

So, Evan, I am steering a piece of paper

that I am going to submit to you is the single most astounding financial graph or picture I've ever

seen. Yeah, ever. What do you think? I find it shocking. Phil? I've never seen anything like it.

Yeah, right. You know, it's kind of a downer for you, our listeners, not to see what we see.

You would be astounded to, I guess we can describe it, though, right?

You can try.

Okay, so this is a graph that compares the European, Eurodenominated, speculative grade, or junk bond index of Bank of America, Maryland,

with the U.S. Treasury

Index, also produced by B. of A. Merrill Lynch. So junk bonds versus treasuries, junk's

unioninated junk bonds. And this thing is about a week old, I guess, but you know what it shows?

It shows that treasuries out yielded European junk, Euro-denominated junk. How's that work? People are more afraid of Donald Trump

than defaults. Yes, I don't think that it does anyone ever any good to disparage European finance

or the euro itself. I mean, my friend Byron Wien once called Europe an outdoor museum, which I thought

was undiscriminating,

a lot of places in Europe. To be sure the Treasury has its problem, U.S. Treasury has this problem.

But, Evan, I mean, Europe is many things, many great things, but it's not paradise, right?

No. Over the weekend, we had kind of a quasi-constitutional crisis in Spain as Catalonia tried

...