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Welcome to the Double X Gab Fest for Thursday, November 2nd, the woke men versus harassers edition.

I'm Hannah Rosen, host of NPR's Invisibilia.

And in the New York studios, we have June Thomas, a managing producer of Slate Podcasts. Hi, June. Hey, Hannah. And Noreen Malone of New York Magazine. Hi, Noreen. You know, Noreen, I feel like just sitting here, I have caught your cold. Oh, God, I'm sorry. I'm listening to my voice. I'm like, ugh. Thought thought it was like cool, sexy voice. Nope, just, just germ voice, huh? Just nasal germ voice, exactly. Before we get going, I want to say so thank you to all of you who wrote your gray hair manifestos. Those were awesome. Those were inspiring. I'm just going to read one line from one of

them, which was from Rachel Miller, who wrote basically, do whatever the hell you want, what makes

you feel good in the morning. And her last line was, and I think, June, you like this one too. Don't let

society play Delilah to your soul. Where's that from? That was really nice. Yeah. I love that. So thank you,

Rachel, and all of you who wrote in. All right, let's get going. What are we going to talk about today?

Hmm. I think we're going to talk about sexual harassment. It is an amazing moment. The particular

aspect we're going to talk about is woke men. The men who are around sexual harassment, the men who see it or maybe don't see it or should see it. What's their responsibility? We're going to have in our show, Frank Four, who was the editor of the New Republic at the time that a lot of this was going on, and we'll explain when we get to the segment.

Second, we'll talk about gender neutrality. It is everywhere. What is it? What does it mean? And what do we think about it? And then the myth of flexible work, it turns out that it's not so good for women as two recent studies show. And then in our Slate Plus segment, June,

you want to, you want to do it? Yeah, we'll be asking our fishnet tights per force sexist.

Actually, can we broaden that topic? Of course. I feel like what's more interesting to me is

like less fishnets specifically than like hooker inspired fashion,

like literally street walker inspired fashion, which includes fishnets.

Is that too, is that too?

No, that's good.

No, it's good.

But just so listeners who don't, are members of Slate Plus, no, we know that streetwalkers barely exist anymore,

that sex work has moved online. So it's a sort of nostalgic streetwalker fashion, streetwalker sheep. Yeah, well, we'll get to it. We will. It's like that's what's interesting about it. Okay, a first topic, sexual harassment. So we have had quite a week, a week which our intern Daniel awesomely called The Rapture, where one by one, the men are falling. I like that phrase and I like that image. The aspect that we're going to talk about is sexual harassment is not isolated. It exists in a system. It's supported by power structures. And this is one of the things that women are upset about. So our question today is, are the men in the system? Are they seeing it? What are they seeing? What's their responsibility in it? So the case we're going to talk about today is the case of Leon Weaselteer, who was the literary editor of the New Republic, a very old magazine, and he was the literary editor for many, many years, and wielded a lot of power there, partly by virtue of his relationship with the person funding the magazine, Marty Parrots, and just partly by virtue of his being the longest running editor there and being kind of brilliant and charismatic and having a reputation in

cultural circles everywhere for just being a powerful editor. To talk to us about this, we have

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