Hey everybody, before we get started, we have a quick favorite ask, which is that if you like

invisibilia, please help us to spread the word about the show. One way you can do that is to go

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big difference to us and we would really appreciate it. Okay, on with the show. Gary Nessner spent most

of his career as an FBI hostage negotiator. In fact, for a while he was the hostage negotiator. He

was at Waco and the DC sniper attacks. So I'm going to ask you about this specific incident.

But that's not what we wanted to talk to him about. We're talking about the Sparryville case again?

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Sparryville, Virginia. Or just outside really. A man had kidnapped his ex and

their young son and he was holding them hostage on the second floor of an empty farmhouse. Gary's job

was to engage the guy, Charlie Leif, somehow win his trust and diffuse the situation. And at times

he felt like he was getting somewhere. I knew he was someone who had a lot of issues, a lot of

behavioral problems, but this is part of me that also liked him. We talked about having sons

the same age. We talked about camping. You know, we formed a little bit of a relationship.

As much of a relationship as you could have when Gary was standing at the bottom of the stairs,

hollering up to Charlie, a SWAT team of armed FBI agents behind him. At one point, Gary caught a

glimpse of the woman being held hostage, Charlie's ex. Her name was Cheryl. She looked extraordinarily

frid and frailed and very scared of the situation. Wouldn't even make eye contact with me.

And then shortly after son up, Charlie started to get very angry.

You know, I couldn't see him, but I was almost sensing nearly a foaming at the mouth frenzy. It was

that bad. He was cursing out, Cheryl, calling her names, telling her she was a horrible wife and

mother. And then he called out to little Charlie and said, come sit in daddy's lap.

And I could hear the little pitter-patter of feet. This little Charlie apparently complied.

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