This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves.

Welcome to the waves. Slates podcast about gender, feminism, and governors who have to give back their

emis. Every episode you get a new pair of women to talk about the thing we can't get off our minds.

And today you've got me, Susan Matthews, news director of Slate, and the editorial director of

this podcast that you're listening to right now. And you've got me, Christina Kauterucci.

I'm a senior writer at Slate and host of the Slate podcast outward. Hi, Christina, I'm so excited

to be here with you. Yeah, under very unfortunate circumstances, given the topic we're discussing.

Almost always unfortunate circumstances. So today we're going to be talking about Andrew Cuomo,

who left the governors mansion in New York this week after a month's long investigation into

accusations of sexual harassment from several former staffers. That investigation yielded a

report that was so damaging that even Cuomo, who has been weathering scandals by simply

toughing them out for years and years, couldn't keep doing it. I like to talk through why it

took so long until all of a sudden it didn't for him to leave and step down. And I'd also really like

to talk about what this particular sequence of events could and should teach us about where

Me Too is right now. And lastly, we're going to talk about a part of this scandal that I actually

think is the most interesting and fascinating aspect of all of this, which is the effect that

Cuomo's exit has had on times up, which is a pretty glitzy organization that launched soon after

the Me Too movement itself and is headed by many famous women, one of whom had to step down in the

wake of the Cuomo scandal and we're going to get into all of that in a minute. So I think the

reason I've been interested in this case specifically is because I think that we'll be able to unpack

some of the questions that I've had for a while. Like, is journalism still enough to take down

a bad man? Should it be and how much are women getting blamed for their efforts to further Me Too,

...