This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves. This is the waves.

Welcome to the waves Slates podcast about gender, feminism, and begging people to stop trying to make

Ted Bundy sexy. Every episode you get a new pair of women to talk about the things we can't get

off our minds. And today you've got me, Shayna Roth, producer of this show, The Waves, and author of

Cold Cases, A True Crime Collection. Right in cold cases and especially promoting it when it came

out about a year ago, I honestly couldn't stop thinking about whether the book that I had

put out into the world was for lack of a better word, a problem. It's a collection of 10

unsolved cases ranging from mass murders to heist, but it was the murders and disappearances

chapters that I kept worrying about, chapters about John Bene Ramsey, Natalie Holloway, and Elizabeth

Short, also known as the Black Dollia, specifically. And by problem, I mean, I was concerned that I was

contributing to a culture that was out of control. True Crime has become something of an industry.

I mean, there's conferences, live tapings of True Crime podcasts. And if you type in True Crime

on Etsy, you will get more than 23,000 hits with shirts, candles, bookmarks, mugs, stickers,

cards, and more that say things like True Crime, Glass of Wine, In Bed by Nine, and just here to

establish an alibi. There's just tons of this stuff out there. And True Crime itself has fans

that range from sort of the casual to the chaotic and true crime podcasts, books, documentaries, and

series. I mean, they are just all over the place. I'm a former prosecutor and I have always been

fascinated by crime. I love mysteries, always have. But as I was writing, I kept seeing patterns

that were concerning to me. So in a lot of the cases, particularly ones that were the victims

were women, usually white women, those were the cases where I found the most research they had

the most documentaries and podcasts and things like that about them. And this is something that I

think is evolving. There are more and more True Crime documentaries that are focused on things

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