The War Keeps Raging Against Science

Science Vs

Spotify Studios

Science, Education, Health & Fitness

4.4 • 11.7K Ratings

🗓️ 22 May 2025

⏱️ 42 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Strange things have been happening to science in the US. An executive order is freezing research, a website with once scientific information now looks kinda like it's advertising a reality show … even milkshakes have been caught in the fray. Milkshakes! On top of this, research projects studying everything from vaccine hesitancy to Covid-19 to climate change have been cut. The Trump administration says that a big reason for the cuts is to stop government waste and boost the economy. Today on the show: What is going on with science in the US right now, and will these cuts ultimately help the economy? To find out, we talk to Nature reporter Max Kozlov, virologist Dr. Seema Lakdawala and economist Professor Andrew Fieldhouse. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/ScienceVsWarKeepsRaging In this episode, we cover: (00:00) A Science Milkshake Up (08:04) Research on the Chopping Block (12:15) How the NIH Justifies Cuts (15:11) 25 million lives on the line (16:48) When Nerds Fight Back (24:46) ‘Dangerous’ Gain-of-Function Research Frozen (27:27 ) Does Science Boost the Economy? (36:05) Losing a Science Superpower? This episode was produced by Wendy Zukerman, with help from Meryl Horn, Rose Rimler, Michelle Dang and Ekedi Fausther-Keeys. We’re edited by Blythe Terrell. Fact Checking by Sam Lemonick. Mix and sound design by Bobby Lord. Music written by Emma Munger, Bumi Hidaka, Peter Leonard, So Wiley and Bobby Lord. Thanks to Maya Golden-Krasner, Deputy Director at the Climate Law Institute at the Center for Biological Diversity – who you heard at the beginning of the show, saying this is just a daily stream of nightmare news, and also thank you Dr Shaye Wolf. Special thanks to Lindsey Cherner and Whitney Potter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman and you're listening to Science Verses.
0:05.1	Today on the show, the unprecedented and sometimes rather strange things that have been happening to science in the US recently.
0:20.8	Milkshakes bring all the boys to the yard, so they say.
0:25.1	But recently they've also been courting some controversy.
0:28.5	Rose Rimlet, senior producer at Science Verses, tell us about the milkshakes.
0:33.3	Okay, so this all started a couple months ago.
0:36.1	Researchers at the NIH, that's the National Institutes of Health, they published a study where they gave people ultra-processed milkshakes.
0:44.4	So these are vanilla shakes.
0:46.6	They were loaded with fat and sugar, like all milkshakes, but also emulsifiers and artificial flavorings, that kind of stuff.
0:53.2	And then they put these people into pet scanners.
0:55.4	Pet scanners? They're scanning their brains?
0:57.7	What did they want to know?
0:58.9	They were testing out this idea that certain foods might be as addictive as drugs.
1:04.1	So, you know, you often hear people say that about sugar.
1:06.1	Right.
1:06.8	And it's also an idea that's out there about ultra-processed foods, that they might be addictive.
1:11.0	So what the scientists at the NIH wanted to see was whether drinking a milkshake could cause
1:17.1	someone's brain to send out a big whoosh of dopamine in the same way that you might see with
1:22.9	addictive drugs, right? Like that happens with cocaine, for example. So was the milkshake?
1:28.7	Bringing all the dopamine to the yard?
1:30.6	Yeah, bringing all the dopamine to the yard.
1:34.2	No. So as a rule, drinking the milkshake did not lead to a big rush of dopamine.
	...

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