This is Thinking in Public, a program dedicated to intelligent conversation about front-line theological and cultural issues with the people who are shaping them.

I'm Albert Mobile, your host and president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.

Josh Holly serves as the senior United States Senator from the state of Missouri.

As attorney general and is a practicing attorney before that,

Senator Holly earned a reputation as a leading constitutional

litigator arguing cases all the way to the United States Supreme Court.

Since his election to the United States Senate in 2019 Senator Holly has been a member of several

important committees including the Judiciary Armed Services and Homeland

Security Committees. He is also the author of the recent book Manhood, The Masculant Virtues America Needs, which is the topic of our conversation today.

Senator Hawley, welcome to thinking in public.

Thank you so much for having me.

Well, I think you know you started an argument, and I think you intended to start an argument,

and at least formally, you kind of started this argument at a 2021 convention the National Conservatism Conference

when you spoke about a crisis of manhood so what were you doing and what was

the argument you hoped to get started?

Well, the argument was that American men really are in crisis.

And if you look across the data, it's really clear.

I mean, you can look at the number of men committing suicide,

the number of men struggling with depression, the number of fatherless homes, which continues to go up and up in this country,

the number of men who are out of work and not even looking for work.

We're not talking about unemployment, but not even in the labor force at all, a number that's also staggeringly high.

And I think if you look at those various indicators, what you can see is there really is a crisis of men in this country and the question is why and

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