The Wagner Group, Bakhmut, and a New Phase in the Ukraine War
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 1 June 2023
⏱️ 53 minutes
🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS
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Summary
The war in Ukraine is approaching a pivotal moment. Russia remains in control of the hotly contested city of Bakhmut. But the ruthlessly effective mercenary forces of the Wagner Group—the same group whose leader, Yevgeny Prighozin, has openly bickered with the regular Russian military and reportedly offered to trade Russian troop positions to Ukrainian intelligence—are withdrawing. Ukrainian forces, meanwhile, are preparing for a reported counteroffensive, even as unclaimed attacks are taking place across the border in Russia—including, most recently, on a civilian target in Moscow.
To discuss these developments, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with two reporters covering the conflict for the Washington Post: Intelligence and National Security Reporter Shane Harris and Ukraine Bureau Chief Isabelle Khurshudyan. They discussed the peculiar role played by the Wagner Group, recent revelations stemming from the Discord leaks, and what to expect from the conflict in the months to come.
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Transcript
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| 0:29.0 | I mean, you hear rumble sometimes of them trying to set back channels to the Tune of the Cremlin. |
| 0:39.0 | Well, we should think about negotiations, or maybe there's a peaceful outcome to the war. |
| 0:43.0 | And I think that sometimes in the US we forget that it's not the oligarch running the country. |
| 0:47.0 | It's very much the other way around. |
| 0:49.0 | They exist and thrive because Putin has put them in positions. |
| 0:55.0 | Maybe because of Wagner's outsize presence in the war, |
| 1:01.0 | there would be some opportunity for the West to try to co-opt pregoation to maybe get him to bring people around. |
| 1:07.0 | I don't hear intelligence officials talking about that, probably because it's probably not all that feasible. |
| 1:13.0 | But when people talk about a world after Putin, one that sometimes they imagine is one in which pregoation potentially has huge influence, |
| 1:19.0 | or maybe even has designs on the presidency himself. |
| 1:23.0 | This is God our Anderson, and this is the law fair podcast for June 1st, 2023. |
| 1:29.0 | The war in Ukraine is approaching a pivotal moment. |
| 1:33.0 | Russia remains in control of the hotly contested city of Bakhmut, |
| 1:37.0 | but the recently effective mercenary forces of the Wagner group. |
| 1:41.0 | The same group whose leader, Yvgeny Pregozin, has openly bickered with the regular Russian military, |
| 1:45.0 | and reportedly offered to trade Russian troop positions to Ukrainian intelligence, are withdrawing. |
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