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This is the Tom Hartman program.

On the line with us, our old friend Michael Mann, Dr. Michael Mann, the Distinguished Professor and

Director of the Center for Science, Sustainability and the Media at the University of Pennsylvania,

the author of numerous books, most recently our fragile moment.

Our lessons from Earth's past can help us survive the climate crisis.

Michael Mann with two ends.net is the website and Twitter handle Michael E-Man, Dr. Mann,

welcome back to the program. James Hanson's most recent paper. It appears to me that what he's saying

is that if it weren't for the aerosols that were throwing into the atmosphere,

the particular matter that is reflecting sunlight back out, that we would be having warming

levels that would approach what we saw during the PETM. Am I misinterpreting that?

You know, I think that the Hanson at all paper has been widely sort of misunderstood in a lot

of the coverage and so I think the actual scientific message has been somewhat lost and distorted

and I think there is a lot of confusion about what it actually claims.

Basic premise of your question or your point there is correct. There is this additional

warming that has been masked by sulfur dioxide pollution, a particulate matter that reflects

...