This is an on-the-media podcast Extra. I'm Bob Garfield.

Since the pandemic forced millions of Americans into lockdown, it's also pushed them out.

Yeah, a perfect storm of COVID, economic uncertainty, and social unrest is prompting waves of Americans to leave big cities and permanently relocate in more sparsely populated areas.

It seems the coronavirus has robbed New Yorkers of their empire state of mind. Many long-time

city dwellers are picking up and moving away to smaller towns and other parts of the state or to

other states altogether. O'Neill and Sons' moving and delivery service in Stanford, Connecticut,

has never seen demand like this in their 25-year history.

We move them out. We're getting a lot of work. We're getting, you know, we're getting work from all over.

New York, L.A., Chicago, they're all losing people. New York City alone lost more than 500,000 residents.

Just during the first few months of COVID, millions more are expected to leave.

Out of increasingly hellish virus-infested cities and into the safe, idyllic suburbs where

bluebirds sing, kids roam free, and there's a mattress firm in every strip mall.

It all makes so much sense. It just isn't, you know, true. Jeff Andrews is a data

researcher at Curbd, where he recently wrote a piece called, No, the pandemic is not emptying out

America's cities. Jeff, welcome to on the media. Thanks for having me. From the New York Times to what you call one of the worst offenders, CNBC, various news outlets have been releasing a torrent of stories about the pandemic-induced urban exodus.

How do these stories typically go?

Well, with the New York Times and the Washington Post,

they are essentially talking to realtors who are talking to them about what they are seeing

in their little corner of the housing market. And the stories go that lockdowns have made

city life less appealing.

People want more space, so they're going to the suburbs to find it,

and suburban housing markets are booming out there.

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