The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework)
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career
Lenny Rachitsky
5.0 • 1.5K Ratings
🗓️ 24 August 2023
⏱️ 70 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
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Bob Moesta is the co-creator of the Jobs To Be Done (JTBD) framework, a close collaborator of Clay Christensen, and CEO and founder of The Re-Wired Group. He has helped launch more than 3,500 new products, services, and businesses and built and sold several startups himself. He is also a fellow at the Clayton Christensen Institute and a guest lecturer at the Harvard Business School, MIT Sloan School of Entrepreneurship, and Northwestern University’s Kellogg School of Management. In this episode, we discuss:
• What Snickers and Milky Way can teach us about JTBD
• The various flavors of the JTBD framework
• Best practices for implementing the framework
• Advice on conducting interviews for B2B vs. B2C customers
• Common mistakes people make when implementing JTBD
• When not to use it
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Find the full transcript at: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta-co-creator-of-the-framework/#transcript
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Where to find Bob Moesta:
• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/bmoesta
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobmoesta/
• Website: http://www.therewiredgroup.com/
• Podcast: https://pca.st/gg6goo1n
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Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
• Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/
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In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Bob’s background
(04:04) A simple explanation of the Jobs To Be Done framework
(07:29) Struggling moments and demand
(09:51) Understanding the context behind pain points
(11:14) Reducing friction in the sales process
(14:46) How Autobooks improved their buying process and 4x’ed conversion
(16:52) The six phases of the buying process
(18:30) The JTBD interview process
(21:55) How Bob’s TBI affected his reading/writing and how he is able to write books
(22:02) Why people switch companies
(27:18) Tips for JTBD interviewing
(30:07) Why you should not have a discussion guide
(32:48) The danger of looking at the customer through the product
(33:53) First steps in applying the JTBD framework
(36:25) Signs people are ready for a change
(37:43) Bob’s “layers of language”
(40:15) Examples of companies with a broad adoption of JTBD
(43:59) The different flavors of JTBD and common mistakes to avoid when implementing it
(48:19) Bob’s work with Clay Christensen on JTBD theory
(51:05) When not to use JTBD
(53:40) Common misconceptions about the framework
(55:55) What compelled Bob to spend so much of his life on JTBD
(58:07) Three big takeaways
(59:07) Lightning round
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Referenced:
• Jason Fried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-fried/
• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor
• Southern New Hampshire University: https://degrees.snhu.edu/
• Paul LeBlanc on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-j-leblanc-6a17749/
• Demand-Side Sales 101: Stop Selling and Help Your Customers Make Progress: https://www.amazon.com/Demand-Side-Sales-101-Customers-Progress/dp/1544509987
• Autobooks: https://www.autobooks.co/
• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/
• Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/
• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/
• The Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University: https://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/
• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/
• Michael Horn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbhorn/
• Ethan Bernstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanbernstein/
• Never Split the Difference: Negotiating as If Your Life Depended on It: https://www.amazon.com/Never-Split-Difference-Negotiating-Depended/dp/0062407805
• William Edwards Deming on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
• Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/
• Sriram and Aarthi on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/hot-takes-and-techno-optimism-from-techs-top-power-couple-sriram-and-aarthi/
• Genichi Taguchi: https://www.qualitygurus.com/genichi-taguchi/
• Tony Ulwick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyulwick/
• The Clayton Christensen Institute on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/clayton-christensen-institute/
• Shape Up: https://basecamp.com/shapeup
• The End of Average: Unlocking Our Potential by Embracing What Makes Us Different: https://www.amazon.com/End-Average-Unlocking-Potential-Embracing/dp/0062358375
• The Big Bang Theory on TBS: https://www.tbs.com/shows/the-big-bang-theory/watch-now
• Oppenheimer: https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/
• Kyota massage chairs at Costco: https://www.costco.com/massage-chairs-cushions.html?brand=Kyota&refine=%7C%7CBrand_attr-Kyota
• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams/
• Matt Hodges on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattnhodges/
• Andrew Glaser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glaserandrew/
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Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
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Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | I think one of the biggest misconceptions around jobs |
| 0:02.4 | to be done is this notion that it's pain and gain |
| 0:04.5 | as opposed to context and outcome. |
| 0:06.3 | When you hear somebody's story and it seems irrational, |
| 0:09.2 | like we'll have people go, oh my God, that's an anomaly. |
| 0:11.2 | That doesn't have. |
| 0:12.0 | But what you realize is that the |
| 0:13.9 | the context makes the irrational rational so the moment you hear a story you go I can't |
| 0:18.2 | believe that nine times out of Ted it's because you don't have the rest of the |
| 0:21.4 | story and so part of it is being able to understand the rest of that context |
| 0:24.6 | that would drive so we say, like, |
| 0:25.7 | why would somebody cut their arm off? |
| 0:27.2 | Well, if they're in this situation and this and this and this and this, |
| 0:29.2 | like, there's nobody who would say they want to cut their arm off, |
| 0:31.3 | but in certain situations you'll do it. |
| 0:32.8 | And so that's what we're trying to do is find where will people change behavior? |
| 0:38.0 | Welcome to Lenny's podcast where I interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hard-won experiences building and growing today's most successful products. |
| 0:47.0 | Today my guest is Bob Mesta. |
| 0:49.0 | Bob is the co-creator of the Jobs to be Done framework alongside Clay Christensen and as you'll hear at the top of our conversation is maybe the most anticipated guest I've had on based on the LinkedIn response. Bob has started eight companies and is currently the co-founder |
| 1:04.1 | and CEO of the Rewired Group and currently spends his time helping companies of |
| 1:07.8 | all sizes unlock hidden insights and create successful products and services. In our |
| 1:12.3 | conversation we get deep into all aspects of the |
... |
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