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download Shreddy for 45% off now. Hey, there. This episode contains just the tiniest

bit of salty language. Okay, here's the show. Eric Umanski is an editor of ProPublica,

works on the Trump Inc podcast with WNYC. And back in the summer, he started noticing

these stories in the New York Times, in Buzzfeed. Stories about Rudy Giuliani pushing to get

Ukraine's help securing Donald Trump's reelection. I remember reading it honestly and looking

at it. I mean, just like my honest thing, I was like, wait, on the one hand, I had this

internal voice being like, wait, this is a big deal because it's, I think it's the

president's lawyer subordinate foreign policy for political interests. I think, but not

everybody is saying that so like, I'm I'm missing something here. And like, oh, look, there's

another tab. There's another story. I got to go to that. Okay. And you are an investigative

editor. How long have you been doing this? I've been doing it a long time. When Eric says

he's been doing this a long time, he means 20 plus years. And still, he'd look at these

stories and think, in Trump's Washington, is this a big deal? But this early reporting,

it was undoubtedly the first draft of the story we all can't stop talking about now.

The story of a president who seems to be enlisting a foreign government to interfere in domestic

politics. Looking back, it's hard not to wonder what made the whistleblowers version of

...