I'm your host, Kelly Chase. First, a couple of quick announcements. We'll be having our monthly

patron-only AMA Zoom call this Saturday, July 8th at 1 p.m. Eastern. This is a chance to come

and hang out, ask me any questions that you have, and connect to other like-minded folks in the space.

If you'd like to join us, you can sign up at patreon.com slash

UFO rabbit hole. I'd love to see you there. And second, throughout the beginning of July,

I'm going to be traveling to work on a couple of new projects that I hope to be able to share with

you soon. As a result, next week, there will be no new episode, but we'll be back on Thursday, July 20th with

Part 3 of Waking Up Inside the Cave. I didn't want to leave you hanging this week, so I decided

to go back into the archives and bring out an interview that I did last summer as a part of a

YouTube series called The Rabbit Hole Conversations. This conversation was with Darren King, aka Exo-Acadamian,

of the Point of Convergence and Liminal Frames podcasts. We just had Darren's co-host from Liminal

Frames Nathan on last week, so this felt like the perfect time to pull this one out. As was mentioned

in the last episode, Darren is someone who spends his life in the deep end

of the UFO phenomenon. I enjoy engaging with his work because it challenges me to think new

thoughts and explore frontiers that I might otherwise look right past. On top of his two podcasts,

Darren is also the communications director for the John E. Mack Institute,

and he is currently preparing to launch a new course on the development of individual and collective consciousness this fall.

This was one of my very first conversations with Darren, and although so much has changed in the last year,

this conversation still feels deeply relevant. I hope you enjoy it. Here is my interview with Darren King, aka Exo Academian. Darren, welcome to the show. Thank you, Kelly. Happy to be here.

I was listening to your wonderful interview on engaging the phenomenon the other night,

and you said something that really stuck out to me, and I kind of want to use that as sort of our starting point, which is that you were talking about how you've recently come

forward in terms of putting yourself out there publicly with your face and your name and all of that.

...