4.8 • 861 Ratings
🗓️ 10 December 2025
⏱️ 48 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
After the promises of Reconstruction began to wither, Black Americans searched for freedom in radically different locales. Caleb Gayle is a journalist, author and professor at Northeastern University, and he is also a contributing writer at The New York Times Magazine. He joins guest host John McCaa to tell the story of Edward McCabe, who made it his life’s work to set up a Black state in Oklahoma. His book is “Black Moses: A Saga of Ambition and the Fight for a Black State.”
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| 1:01.5 | I'm John McKay, sitting in for Chris Boyd. |
| 1:04.3 | With the end of reconstruction in the second half of the 19th century, |
| 1:07.9 | newly freed slaves found their land and rights rapidly disappearing, |
| 1:12.5 | their very lives threatened with the imposition of Jim Crow laws. In searching for a place |
| 1:18.2 | free of racial terror, many came across the proposals of a man named Edward McCabe. He suggested |
| 1:24.9 | they go west to Oklahoma, create a state of their own, free from discrimination, |
| 1:29.7 | and many, taking his advice, packed what they had and took off for the promised land. |
| 1:35.5 | Caleb Gale tells their story, and the story of the man who coaxed them to migrate in |
| 1:40.5 | Black Moses, a saga of ambition and the fight for a black state. Caleb is a journalist, |
| 1:46.8 | award-winning writer, and associate professor at Northeastern University. He joins me this hour. Caleb, |
| 1:52.5 | welcome to think. John, thank you so much for having me. Perhaps we should start with a little |
| 1:58.1 | bit of background of the period. Before the Civil War, as a means of ending slavery, there was no shortage of plots of people |
| 2:08.0 | wanting to send black folk to some other country, to Liberia, to Haiti. |
| 2:12.8 | Even Lincoln talked about a plan of folks going to Panama, didn't he? |
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