Welcome to the VergeCast, the flagship podcast of third party operating systems.

I'm your friend David Pierce, and since we're a little under a week out from WWDC, Apple's

annual developer conference, I have begun a ritual I like to call the charging.

I pull all my phones, tablets, old phones, old tablets, old max, everything I can find

out of storage and get it all updated and charged.

It makes a lot of time, giant pain, but it's worth it.

Because I am going to spend a lot of this summer inevitably, testing new stuff from Apple,

and a lot of it's going to break everything, and I need a backup plan.

Anyway, Apple is the focus of today's show, but we're actually not going to talk about

WWDC.

We're going to do a lot of that over the next week.

So we'll hold off for now.

Instead, we're going to look backward at Apple and tell you two stories about two computers

from the 70s and 80s that can actually tell us an awful lot about how Apple and the

tech industry as a whole work now.

And in case you're wondering, no, I don't think either of these computers will support iOS

17 or Mac OS weed joke or whatever else gets launched next week.

But we're going to get into all of the rest of it in just a second.

This is the Verge Cast.

We'll be right back.

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