Well, welcome to the Tudor Dixon podcast. This one should be very interesting because I think

all through the 2024 election, we were all saying, gosh, I cannot wait until like 20 years from now.

There's a book on this. And we know exactly what happened behind the scenes. But we didn't have to

wait for 20 years because Jonathan Allen wrote it for us.

So today we get to talk to him. He's the NBC News Senior National Politics Reporter and he teamed up

with the hills, Amy Parns, to write this book. It's called Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the White

House. Jonathan, thank you for joining me. My pleasure.

I'm excited to talk to an experienced campaigner.

Well, I actually was reading through this, and I'm like,

this is the behind the scenes that people don't know,

and the amount of information the candidate doesn't know, like you kind of highlight how much they

keep from the candidate, which as a former candidate, it's like, oh, it makes you so mad.

You know, you read it.

You're like, this is so embarrassing that you are kind of kept in this cloud of, I don't know,

I guess you're kept in a cloud of joy to keep you happy.

And it makes sense.

I mean, I think it is.

It's a joy bubble.

The idea is to make the candidate comfortable and for the staff to make as many decisions as possible

without the candidate and around the candidate.

I mean, it's really like managing somebody, you know, managing up.

Yes.

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