Welcome to indoctrination, a weekly conversation series about protecting yourself from systems of control.

I'm your host, Rachel Bernstein.

Hello, everyone. Today, it is my pleasure to have my friend and colleague Steve Hassan on. In this episode, I talk to Steve

for a personal and eye-opening conversation about how cults work, why people get drawn into them,

and how those same dynamics show up in today's

political and social landscape. Steve opens up about his own recruitment into the Moone's

and the difficult, difficult process of leaving and how that experience shaped his decades of work, helping people understand and

break free from undue influence. We also explore the overlap between cult behavior and

modern politics, including his research on what he describes as the cult of Trump,

the title of his book on that subject, and his interactions with key figures and organizations

along the way where he was collecting that data. We also dig into broader topics like

fourth generation psychological warfare, why certain groups are more vulnerable to manipulation,

and what it actually takes to build resilience and critical thinking in a world full of persuasive forces.

So, this episode offers what I think is a really grounded and compassionate look at the

tactics used to control people and highlights why awareness and empathy and informed conversation matter so much, especially right now.

Here's Steve.

Music Here's Steve. It is a total treat, my pleasure and honor to have Steve Hassan with me today.

We go back a long way, and it is so nice. It's like old home week

to be able to talk to you always. It feels good, nice and warm, lovely connections. I would

love to have you introduce yourself even though you really don't need to, but just in case, go for it,

and then we'll start talking. Yeah, my pleasure. And Rachel, you and I go back decades and

decades, and you're one of my favorite people and cult experts. And I met your dad and who set up the cult clinic and the task force in

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