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Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

The Truth About Immigration and the American Worker (with Rogé Karma)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.81.5K Ratings

🗓️ 24 June 2025

⏱️ 39 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Conventional wisdom says immigration drives down wages and takes jobs from American workers. But what if that story is fueled by bad economics? Journalist Rogé Karma joins Nick and Goldy to challenge the Econ 101 logic that supercharges anti-immigrant rhetoric—and to explain what the data actually shows. Drawing on research from the U.S., Denmark, and beyond, Karma makes the case that immigrants don’t steal jobs—they grow the economy. In a moment when political leaders are pushing mass deportations in the name of “economic populism,” this conversation reveals what’s really at stake.  Rogé Karma is a staff writer at The Atlantic. He was previously the senior editor of The Ezra Klein Show at The New York Times. At The Atlantic, he covers economics and economic policy. Social Media: ⁠@theatlantic.com⁠ ⁠theatlantic⁠ ⁠@TheAtlantic⁠ Further reading:  ⁠The Truth About Immigration & The American Worker⁠ ⁠The Most Dramatic Shift in U.S. Public Opinion⁠ Website: ⁠http://pitchforkeconomics.com⁠ Instagram: ⁠@pitchforkeconomics⁠ Threads: ⁠pitchforkeconomics⁠ Bluesky: ⁠@pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social⁠ Twitter: ⁠@PitchforkEcon⁠, ⁠@NickHanauer⁠, ⁠@civicaction⁠ YouTube: ⁠@pitchforkeconomics⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠Pitchfork Economics⁠ Substack: ⁠The Pitch⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0

The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result of decades of bad economic theory.

0:10.6

The last five decades of trickle-down economics haven't worked.

0:14.6

But what's the alternative?

0:16.2

Middle-out economics is the answer.

0:18.6

Because the middle class is the source of growth, not its consequence.

0:23.1

That's right.

0:28.7

This is pitchfork economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.

0:36.9

Welcome to the show.

0:44.4

We're recording this podcast, Nick, on June 18th,

0:48.7

which is just a few days after the big No kings rallies nationwide.

0:55.0

And I don't know what it was like in other cities,

0:59.0

but here in Seattle, it was very much themed

1:04.0

in opposition to the deportations

1:09.0

and the fascist use of ice in rounding up people. The rally very successful.

1:17.5

We had about 70,000, one of the largest political rallies in Seattle history. And we're known

1:24.2

to have had a few, much bigger actually than WTO for which were infamous.

1:28.9

But it was organized a lot by One America, which was Pramilla, the organization that the immigrant

1:36.1

rights organization that Pramila Gialpaul founded.

1:39.2

Pramilla gave a great speech at the start.

1:42.0

And throughout it, you could see it was very much a reaction to

1:47.5

the deportations of the Trump regime, which certainly in the months leading up to last year's

1:57.1

election and certainly since has been partially billed as an economic issue that somehow

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