Yeah, but she gets in it.

What?

Welcome back to the Philip DeFranco show. You daily dive into the news. There is a lot we need to talk about and a lot. We need to break down today, starting with this.

I need you to understand that the prosecution of Nicholas Maduro is going to be a circus. We're following the invasion of Venezuela and kidnapping Maduro, he made his first appearance in a U.S. court yesterday. And there, he pled not guilty to the four charges that were laid out against him, including narco-terrorism conspiracy, cocaine importation conspiracy, and possession of machine guns. Right? When he showed up to court, you had Maduro introducing himself as the president of Venezuela and insisting that he is a prisoner of war rather than a defendant. I mean, that's a key distinction that he made for a number of reasons. First, it sends a message and makes an argument that the raid on Venezuela was not a law enforcement operation. It was a military action. And by claiming to be a prisoner of war, Maduro is saying that his treatment should be dictated by international law in the Geneva Convention, rather than face the accusation of personal wrongdoing and a trial under U.S. civilian laws. And with that, it looks like Maduro's legal team, which includes D.C. based attorney Barry Joel Pollock, is going to argue that Maduro is in fact detained illegally. But there, I got to stress, you have legal experts saying that it's going to be a very tough cells saying that federal courts, quote, generally declined to interfere with the means of

arrest. But that is also just one path for what has been described as an incredibly legally complex case. And so even more likely is that we're gonna see Maduro's status as a head of state and an argument for immunity pop up at some point. Though even that could prove difficult for Maduro's defense team. Because there's a precedent for the U.S. government bringing the leader of another country to trial, but it's also pretty rare. But also like a lot of things happening right now are rare. But this case, right here, it's being heavily compared to the early 90s prosecution of Panama dictator Manuel Noriega. Noriega was also accused of participating in a large-scale operation to smuggle drugs into the United States, as well as being captured in a military operation in his home country. And in that case, Noriega's argument for immunity is a foreign head of state, it was shot down, and he was tried, convicted, and sentenced to 40 years in prison. And a big reason why his immunity argument failed is because he wasn't formally recognized as the legitimate leader of his country, which is also the case for Maduro. The U.S., as well as a lot of other countries, they haven't recognized Maduro as the legitimate leader of Venezuela since 2019 when he was re-elected and what was internationally considered a fraudulent election. But also here, I'll say it is not clean cut. You have some legal experts, like a retired prosecutor from the Noriega case saying, there's no claim to sovereign immunity if we don't recognize him as head of state. Several US administrations, both Republican and Democrat have called this election fraudulent and withheld a US recognition. Adding sadly for Maduro, it means he stuck with it. But also, you had some legal experts arguing the opposite saying that Maduro has, quote, a much stronger sovereign immunity defense than Noriega did. Especially considering that in the unsealed indictment, the Justice Department referred to Maduro as the de facto but illegitimate ruler of Venezuela. So there is a chance that the defense team could argue for even just partial immunity for Maduro's official acts. That will also be a hard sell for the defense because Maduro is accused of facilitating the shipment of thousands of tons of cocaine into the U.S. by providing law enforcement coverage and partnering with drug traffickers. So it's likely that the government's gonna argue, hey, running a big narco-trafficking operation is not an official act. But that also means that we're likely gonna see that argument of immunity in any form being litigated all over again and maybe all the way up to the Supreme Court. And really, that's just the tip of the iceberg regarding complications that this case might face. Well, the structure will likely look similar to any standard criminal case, it's very likely going to be even slower than we're used to. Especially considering that some of the evidence it may come from intelligence sources or be classified, which means that the process of discovery or evidence shared between the prosecutors and defense team, it could take a long time.

And with that, you would have a law professor from Duke explaining the government may not want to use any classified information at trial, but that doesn't mean that the government doesn't have an obligation to turn over some classified material potentially if it's exculpatory or otherwise as discoverable under the federal rules.

There's then also the issue of witnesses with one former federal prosecutor on a case against high-ranking Venezuelans explaining that drug trafficking cases can be harder to prove because of their reliance on witnesses within the drug trade itself. Saying you're going to have to get somebody in the room with him who says he knew about it, he allowed it to happen, or that he did something more. Which then also brings up a whole new issue of security. regardless, it seems that the prosecution is very confident in its case. With several former prosecutors saying that the Justice Department would only move to capture an indict Maduro if they believe that the case was strong enough. And so at least for now, one of the big questions is whether or not this is going to go to trial. Where Maduro has pled not guilty, but there's also time to reach a plea agreement. And considering that he's potentially facing a life sentence for the conspiracy charges plus decades for the weapons violations, he might be driven to take that option. But then also, if this case does go to trial, it's definitely not going to be soon. You've got legal experts saying that with all the hurdles, the trial at the very least won't take place this year. And then while Maduro's being prosecuted in the U.S. and you have people taking to the street saying, the dictatorship is over, the members of his inner circle,

they just remain in power. And that even includes his Interior Minister and Defense Minister who have both been indicted in the U.S. on drug smuggling charges. Or with the Trump administration offering multi-million dollar rewards for information leading to their arrest or conviction. And then of course you have Maduro's vice president, right, his number two, Delci Rodriguez. And she was sworn in yesterday as the country's interim leader, even winning an endorsement from Maduro Zanzan who promised his unconditional support. Which is even crazier when you remember that she's also the currently preferred choice of the Trump administration, which may or may not be connected to the fact that she may be the leader that the oil industry wanted in Venezuela all along. You see, she's the daughter of a leftist militant who once orchestrated the kidnapping of an American businessman and died in 1976 after being tortured in prison by state security forces.

And that was an experience that is said to have shaped her worldview and eventually led her to work in the successive governments of former President Hugo Chavez and then Maduro.

And you have her former colleagues and U.S. officials describing her as a ruthlessly ambitious and Machiavellian political operative. With her then, over the years, working her way up to foreign minister and then economic and finance minister. And then in 2024, after Maduro's widely contested re-election, she was named minister of Petroleum and Hydrocarbons, putting her in charge

of the National Oil Company. A position where she apparently made a very, very big impression, and you had Bloomberg reporting that executives, lawyers, and investors tied to the oil industry, all made the case to the White House that she was the person to replace Maduro. Right, and specifically, according to a report, she impressed them by navigating Venezuela's industry through international sanctions, economic pressures, and internal mismanagement. Rightness led many of these people to believe that she could

stabilize the she impressed them by navigating Venezuela's industry through international sanctions, economic pressures, and internal mismanagement.

Right, and it's led many of these people to believe that she could stabilize Venezuela's economy and paved the way for American business interests faster and more effectively than someone like Maria Karina Machado, the country's opposition leader.

And so in addition to that thinking, you had Trump's inner circle, apparently basing their decision on factors such as a classified CIA intelligence analysis that looked at what might happen if Maduro was no longer president. Right, in that report, it determined that members of Maduro's regime, including Rodriguez, would have the best chance of facilitating a stable transition. Whereas Machado or Edmundo Gonzalez, who's widely seen as the actual winner of their 2024 election, would have a harder time due to greater pushback from pro-regime security services, drug trafficking networks, and political opponents. Though notably here, I'll say, reports said that Trump also had another reason for not wanting to work with them. You see, during Trump's first term, his maximum pressure sanctions campaign, along with other diplomatic efforts, they were aimed at creating the conditions for Venezuela's opposition to rise up and remove Maduro from power. But obviously, that just didn't happen. And according to Juan Cruz, who served as the top White House official handling Latin American policy at the time, Trump blamed the opposition. Saying Trump sees them as losers as they failed to deliver. And adding, it's an opposition that he sees as unimpressive and having come up short, so why would you just turn it over to them? While she has been trying to work Trump last night, to many, she just kind of debased herself,

even offering to share her Nobel Peace Prize with him. so why would you just turn it over to them? Right, while she has been trying to work Trump last night,

to many, she just kind of debased herself,

even offering to share her Nobel Peace Prize with him. Though in addition to that, you also had her going after Delci Rodriguez, among other things, calling her the architect of the Paduro government's repression and saying that she just can't be trusted. Well, you can find, you know, mixed reporting about the exact role that she played. It's true that she was by his side as he ordered what has really been described as the most aggressive wave of repression that the country is seen in the aftermath of the contested 2024 election. And now, you know, as she's taking over, there are concerns that a new wave of repression has begun. Just yesterday, Venezuelan authorities detained at least 14 members of the news media, according to the country's main union for journalists and media employees. They also said that at least some of them had their phones confiscated and

thoroughly searched, including contacts, conversations, voice notes, Instagram accounts, emails,

and documents. One, even actually got deported. Also, they've got heavily armed security forces

and pro-government motorcycle gangs known as collectivos roaming the capital, reportedly stopping

drivers at times and checking their phones.

A move that has been described as clearly intended to reinforce the government's internal repression scheme and prevent popular mobilizations through fear.

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