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I'm Dorothy Wickenden. On today's Politics and More podcast, David Remnick talks with

New Yorker staff writer Jonathan Blitzer. They'll discuss

how the Trump administration's immigration policy evolved over the past four years.

Trump launched his presidential campaign focusing on the issue of immigration. Mexican rapists,

the wall. We don't need to rehash at all. But after his inauguration,

arrests by immigration and customs enforcement, ICE, increased very sharply. Undocumented immigrants

began to live in real fear. Staff writer Jonathan Blitzer has covered immigration for us

throughout this administration.

And early on, back in 2017, he went to a church in Upper Manhattan to talk with a woman named Amanda Morales-Gera.

And her story was particularly dramatic.

Threatened with deportation, Amanda had taken her children and sought sanctuary in the church, where they lived for months.

What's been the hardest thing about staying here in this church for three months?

More than three months.

...