Hello and welcome to rock and roll politics, the twice weekly podcast with me, Steve Richards.

Thank you so much for tuning in wherever you are around the world, the UK, etc. Well, that's it, isn't it?

Anyway, thank you for joining in. I think I've been looking

forward to this for a long time and I think we're all going to enjoy our conversation we've got

today. As you all know, we've been delving deep into the mysteries of the modern Conservative Party

and we've approached it in all kinds of different ways

in recent months. But in a way, we've got today the guru on the Conservative Party at every

level from the membership, which is an important dimension to the parliamentary party, to the

cabinets and the prime ministers. It's Tim Bale,

whose latest book is the Conservative Party after Brexit with the appropriate subtitle,

Turmoil and Transformation. And it is fascinating both as a narrative. Of course, it reads like a thriller on one level

because what has happened since that Brexit referendum

is utterly compelling as a drama.

But of course, it delves much deeper than that.

Tim, thanks so much for joining us today.

Could I begin by asking you to reflect on the present, really? Because your book,

actually, you get to Sunak. You must have to update it with a sort of nightmareish frequency,

given the number of prime ministers that have ruled Britain recently. But it seems to me that this parliamentary party, which you chronicle and observe several times in the books, has been increasingly less deferential to leaders and harder to govern.

Remains as hard to govern for Sunac now as for Theresa May, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss, with the

brothermen dramas, the various conferences, which I know you've reflected on as well.

Is that your view that we are still witnessing a parliamentary party and the wider Tory party,

being as insurrectionary as ever really?

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