Today we got a great guest, a podcast listener, and somebody I've gotten to know as a salesperson.

And I think you're really going to enjoy the interview.

And I've been doing a lot of research on what it takes to be a great salesperson and a great sales leader.

And what I find is that people tend to either oversimplify or over-complexify the sales process. And either one is wrong or either

incomplete or distracting.

What we need to do is reps is model our sale and cover all of the complexities that are there,

whether we admit it or not.

I did a poll on LinkedIn where I asked, you know, how important it is to have been a salesperson

to be able to lead sales. Now, a lot of people pooh-poot it. A lot of people said, oh, the best

players don't make the best coaches. They used a lot of sports analogies. And one that really stuck with me,

one that was, you know, you don't have to have been a horse to be a jockey. And the assumption there

is that sales is like a finite game. You know, where there's a start time and end time.

There's written rules.

There's a referee.

There's plays and there's time.

And there's complete and openness where everyone sees what everyone's doing.

Well, that doesn't happen in sales.

You know, we have a few meetings with people.

The number of people who can get involved at some level is pretty big,

even if it's just for influence, not approval, people who can just say no or distract.

And the timeline, when does it really start, does it start when you start talking to them,

or does it start before that when they hear about you? When does it end? Does it end on the PO?

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