BBC sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello. Just as we expect the law to be there for us all,

to provide a code of behaviour and to protect us from harm, we also expect its enforcement for

justice to be done when we need it. That may be as victims, as parties to a dispute, if we have

an accusation laid against us

rightly or wrongly. Most of us never see this system up close, apart from those who work in it.

And anyone who does will tell you today that it is in a mess, even a crisis.

The Crown Courts in England and Wales, where the most serious cases are dealt with, have a

backlog of more than 65,000 cases. It has doubled in the last five years. Yes, the pandemic and lockdowns have played a role, but something deeper is going wrong. In Northern Ireland, criminal cases are taking twice as long to conclude as in England and Wales. In Scotland, there is progress on clearing

the backlog, but wait times for crimes such as rape have increased. Is there too often in our

system today, is it too much about the effective denial of justice? Welcome to the today debate.

Welcome to the Today debate. Welcome to all of you in the audience for your faith in us, because you booked without knowing what we would be discussing tonight.

This is a big topic, which is the way we like them in these debates, but I am going to set a few parameters to the discussion before I

introduce the panel. We will be looking at how long cases are taking on average, what that

means for prisons, which are holding people on remand before trial, as well as after convictions.

We'll be looking at some of the key ideas on how the backlog can be cleared and cases

progress faster in future, including, for example,

more use of magistrates and more use of Nightingale temporary courts as well. And the five people

here on the stage in the radio theatre all reflect different parts of the justice system.

They will be followed by tomorrow morning a minister coming onto today to talk about the

situation. So let me introduce the panel. Until three months ago, Samaks Hill was the director

of public prosecutions for England and Wales. So Max, you did that job for five years. As you

left, you acknowledged how much pressure it was under. I think one of the things you

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