Yeah.

And you're like, there's no way this dude's this compliant.

And I, that would alert me. I'm slapped. Like, I've been to apartments where we were looking to pick up a perp. And when he was getting a little bit outrageous, like we didn't want to, we didn't want to handcuff him because we'd rather bring him into the precinct without handcuffs. But there were times that I said, cuff this guy. Put the cuffs on him right now. I don't care if he knows where we're going with this. I want the cuffs on because he's dangerous.

I got a quick question for Scott. Scott, you said that in that case, him crossing his arm was, yes,

it was some type of, what did you call it, like a comfort? It's self-soothing. Self-soothing. But if he wasn't doing that in the early part of the interview, would that be a sign that perhaps now he's trying to be deceptive? Or is it just, we think because of the situation he was in, the pictures were on the phone, He knew the jig was up, and that's why he was doing that?

Yeah, because you have that, you know, when you're talking about rapport, when you're first coming, you're hanging out and pretending like you're waiting on something, you're just sitting, you know, shooting the breeze and going, hey, man, where you're from, and those kind of things, what's going on? Scott, we use the Yiddish word called schmooze.

Oh, okay.

So anyway, when you called schmooze. Oh, okay. Oh, so anyway, when you're schmooze, we're schmooze the guy. Yeah. You definitely try to build a rapport and try to, you know, listen, there's good cop, bad cop. A lot of times me and my partner were good cop, good cop, trying to get a rapport going. And sometimes the good cop, bad cop thing came into. And then

sometimes it was too bad cops if it was a bad guy, you know. But I think that that rapport was very

important in getting, doing, interviewing interrogation for sure. Oh, it's the main thing. It's the

main thing. I work a lot with embezzlers. And that's the key is what is the rapport because they want to trust you

you know when you go listen I'm here to help you man I'm trying to help you out this

and I'm trying to put you away for 15 years yeah yeah no my line was always uh no you're gonna get

25 to life for the murder if you cooperate you know maybe you'll get you'll get 15. So, you know, like, let's make a deal almost. But again, trying to get the confidence, the guy to drop his confidence and to trust you a little bit. And a lot of times it worked, you know, to come up front, you know, tell the story and, you know, for yourself from the mercy of your court, especially when you have a lot of evidence.

Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, that's very common. What you're talking about it during that report, it's when we get a baseline, see how they act when the heat isn't turned up yet. You know, so this guy, and on the behavior panel, we actually did, I think, two episodes on this guy. And but I didn't remember we've done so many you had this. You don't remember who you've done. So I don't remember the guy's name, but I remember what he looks like. And what we noticed as well was at the very beginning, everything starts, you know, he's relaxed. And the more the stress is, you know, rises, the more it gets heated, the more he starts garden, he'll put his arm in front of himself and that arm gets like that there most of the times in his situation it wasn't

just all of a sudden he crossed his arms he sort of moved slowly into it like most everyone does

in those situations because you're the as the heat gets up you start rubbing on things and

thinking about stuff and scooching around your chair and you'll barrier with different parts of your body or different things.

And in his case, he would usually just sit there almost like a frog, you know, sitting there by the pond getting ready to jump in.

And as you know, the jumping in part, that's what you've got to watch out for.

Because people like that, they can just bust wide open real quick and run or fight or do whatever they're going to do.

Detectives could have been a little more aggressive, I think.

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