In this episode of the Straight White American Jesus Sunday Interview, host Leah Payne speaks with journalist Sam Kestenbaum about his reporting on celebrity pastor culture and the rise of the “hype priest.” The conversation centers on Kestenbaum’s widely discussed profile of Judah Smith, a “pastor-to-the-stars” connected to figures like Justin Bieber, and expands into a broader analysis of how millennial pastors have fused evangelical preaching with aesthetics, branding, and media performance. Sam Kestenbaum is a journalist who covers religion in America, known for his deeply reported and stylistically distinctive profiles of contemporary spiritual figures. Based in Los Angeles, his work has appeared in The New York Times, Harper’s Magazine, Rolling Stone, and beyond, where he examines the intersections of faith, politics, and culture. Together, Payne and Kestenbaum explore the Churchome experience in Los Angeles, pop-up worship in rented theaters, a creative-class audience, and a ministry shaped as much by production value and performance as by theology. They discuss how presentation - from clothing to sermon delivery - functions as a form of religious communication, as well as how figures like Judah Smith navigate political polarization by shifting toward a more therapeutic, individualized message. The conversation also maps a wider ecosystem of charismatic influencers, including those who lean more explicitly into conservative politics, and situates today’s media-savvy pastors within a longer lineage of charismatic power brokers shaping American public life. In This Episode Sam Kestenbaum’s profile of Judah Smith and the rise of the “hype priest” The Churchome model: pop-up churches, celebrity culture, and Los Angeles creatives Aesthetics, authenticity, and performance in contemporary evangelical preaching The influence of Black Pentecostal styles on white charismatic leaders Why some celebrity pastors avoid overt political alignment The next generation: influencers, revival tours, and conservative media ecosystems Figures like Greg Laurie and Bryce Crawford in the broader charismatic landscape The enduring influence of leaders like Che Ahn and the question of political power Links: Sam Kestenbaum’s website: https://samkestenbaum.com/ “The Hype Priest Who Rode the Bieber Wave: Judah Smith’s message of grace earned him many famous followers. Is he out of step with other Evangelicals?” (Vulture / New York Magazine): https://www.vulture.com/article/judah-smith-church-pastor-justin-bieber.html  “The Demon Slayers: the New Age of American Exorcisms” (on Greg Locke, Harper’s Magazine): https://harpers.org/archive/2024/08/the-demon-slayers-sam-kestenbaum-exorcisms/  “‘I Think All the Christians Get Slaughtered’: Inside the MAGA Road Show Barnstorming America” (on Clay Clark, Rolling Stone): https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/clay-clark-reawaken-america-maga-tour-trump-1234594574/  Find Sam Kestenbaum at https://samkestenbaum.com/ Find Dr. Leah Payne at drleahpayne.com , subscribe on Substack, follow her on most social media platforms at @drleahpayne, listen along at Spirit & Power: Charismatics & Politics in American Life and Rock that Doesn’t Roll: The Story of Christian Rock, and read along: God Gave Rock and Roll to You: A History of Contemporary Christian Music. Subscribe for $3.65: ⁠https://axismundi.supercast.com/⁠ Subscribe to our free newsletter: ⁠https://swaj.substack.com/⁠ Order American Caesar by Brad Onishi: ⁠https://static.macmillan.com/static/essentials/american-caesar-9781250427922/⁠ Donate to SWAJ: https://axismundi.supercast.com/donations/new Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices