The Subtext: Everyone Hates Poetry

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

Lee Camp

Philosophy, Society & Culture, Religion & Spirituality

4.8 • 555 Ratings

🗓️ 8 April 2026

⏱️ 60 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Lee and Savannah welcome a guest on this week’s episode to discuss why everyone hates poetry! In the hot seat is professor and poet Donovan McAbee, who recently published Holy the Body, a collection of poems exploring loss, grief, and doubt. Together, they talk about the beauty of uncertainty and how poetry can be the translator of life’s darkest experiences. If you liked the selected poems McAbee read on this episode, make sure to pick up a copy of Holy the Body! Things we mentioned in this episode: Holy the Body by Donovan McAbee Selected Poems by Seamus Heaney Endurance by Alfred Lansing The Frozen River by Ariel Lawhon Viola Davis on Good Hang with Amy Poehler Falling by James L. Dickey Praying Drunk by Andrew Hudgins Models of the Church by Avery Dulles Follow Donovan McAbee: Instagram Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, Lee. Welcome to our show.
0:01.2	Hello, Savannah. Welcome to our show.
0:04.0	We're sitting across from each other.
0:06.0	And by that, I mean, not across from each other.
0:08.7	This is feeling odd.
0:10.1	Side by side.
0:11.0	Side by side. Yes. I can tell your body languages that you feel quite uncomfortable.
0:17.2	But it's for a good reason. Because today we have Donovan McAbee with us, which I'm so excited that you're here. Welcome, Donovan. It's good to be here. Great to have you with us. And this is hitting me now. When you guys go to restaurants with your wives, are you side-by-side people or across people? Well, of course you're across. If it's just a two of you. That is not a given. Some people are side by sideers, but yes, so you are an across person. Well, of course, like normal people. Like normal people. We vary. Oh. I knew it. Sometimes we are across and sometimes we are side by side. And what's the determining factor? How comfortable the one side is.
0:57.9	Okay, so if one side has like padding or... Right, like a bench seat with padding, then we both like that.
1:01.8	And so sometimes we'll just sit side by side.
1:03.7	And then do you talk to each other like this?
1:07.9	That's boldly.
1:09.4	That's boldly.
1:10.2	I love it.ly well what are you
1:12.9	I mean you're just asking the questions
1:14.1	every time
1:14.7	clearly
1:16.6	clearly given that you think it's bold
1:18.3	that you
1:18.9	the side by side is bold you are
1:20.8	across from
1:21.8	you should try it
	...

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